Curse

Pro-Monk · Jul 14, 2007, 01:38 PM // 13:38

In checking the /age of my account I have played 4056 hrs over the past 23 months. Since the average job has approx. 2002 hrs per year, I'd say I'm pretty much a professional GW player (lol). BTW, I strictly play PvE.

I began playing the game before Anet's attempts to improve the economy through anti-farming codes, changing monster AI, etc. To me, those were the fun days, where the game had a flow. As you moved through the game you acquired what was needed to progress. If you were in an area at the appropriate level, any well balanced party could take on huge mobs of monsters by careful aggro.

As would be expected, it wasn't long before fan sites such as this one, became a haven for the hardcore player. To me, the hardcore player is one that will play the same thing over and over and over until they have figured out every nuance of how to beat the quest, mission, area, etc. Information on these sites began to extend well beyond "guides" and developed into step-by-step instructions on how to do practically anything in-game. Naturally, anything exploitable in the game was quickly shared and jumped upon by that class of players wanting a "leg up" over everybody else.

This started Anet upon a course of attempting to plug up the holes in the game. Unfortunately, what Anet didn't realize, and still hasn't, is that the hardcore player will ALWAYS find some way have substantial avantages over the majority of other players. Interestingly enough, I believe that most of the outcry about bots and gold purchased for real money came from those that exploited the game the most. However, even while all this was going on, the game play changed very little for the majority of players.

The advent of Nightfall really changed the tenor of the entire game for me. In my opinion, that's when Anet gave in to the hardcore players. From that point on, the game lost it's finesse. The ability to separate mobs became a thing of the past. It was no longer a matter of having a balanced party, but the necessity of using specifically scripted professions and builds following step-by-step instructions provided by fan sites.

I feel that's why there is always such a huge difference of opinion whenever someone posts a thead in the forums about game play in general ( i.e. loot-scaling, the bots, AI, etc.) The biggest example of this is in the area of amassing gold. Anyone starting a thread or creating a post about having difficulty in obtaining gold (or loot) seems destined to be flamed by those that have no problem in getting gold (or loot). The fact of the matter is not the gold (or loot) itself, BUT THE MANNER IN WHICH IT IS OBTAINED.

It's true enough that ANYONE wanting to follow the step-by-step instructions found in the farming (or other) sections of fan sites can get any amount of gold, greens, items, etc. they want. However, to many (including myself), by doing so they might as well be a bot following programed instructions. I believe that the vast majority of players would rather have the ability to use careful aggro with a variety of professions/skills in a party they develop themselves to play and advance through the game.

The Price of Failure of Anet's attempts control bots, exploiters, and hardcore players is that they have removed the "fun" factor for everyone else. Anet's own dev's admitted that the anti-farm code they implemented made the game "less-friendly". It only makes sense that anything a "casual" player can do to obtain something will be misused by some. However, it makes no sense at all make most everything worthwhile unobtainable by the "casual" player because of other's misuse. This will only make the game unplayable for most while having little or no effect on those who will take advantage of anything Anet does to stop bots, exploiters, etc. Personally, I could care less about bots, purchased gold, or what other players have obtained.

My advice to Anet? Stop worrying so much about the small minority of players that you feel obligated to control and concentrate on the vast majority of players who just want to play the game for FUN.

NOTE: This is my personal opinion. If you don't agree, I really don't care.

lucifer_uk · Jul 14, 2007, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro-Monk

NOTE: This is my personal opinion. If you don't agree, I really don't care.

Exactly why you shouldn't have posted this.

Last time I checked this was a forum for discussion.

The Abbott · Jul 14, 2007, 02:42 PM // 14:42

I agree, I have 9 Chars, 1 Monk with Fow Armor, People Know Me Title (need one more for I'm very important) and over 10 million exp, a necro with 2 million exp nearly enough for his fow, a warrior with 2 million and kind of a big deal title and a dervish, ele and ranger all with multiple sets of 15k and the ele has vabbian,... needless to say I've played ALOT of pve.. on average 10-11 hours per day during prophecies,, about 8-9 hours per day during factions, then back to 10-11 during the start of nightfall,.,, but SINCE then the daily ammount dropped rapidly,., the prospect of making money, buying some new stuff or just ammassing a fortune and playing the buying/selling game has all gone for me now.. I can't farm a few K quickly and if I do its luck and boring at that.... the game I played no longer exists, and instead now I have been inactive for nearly a week, played two days last week and had a quick go last night,, but nothing interests me,, I opened all my unlocked chests and made around 33k and got 15 useless gold items which ALL went to the merchant taking my total to 36,,, now that would have been great back in the day., but now as that is my ONLY option of making cash,, and the fact I would like fow armor for necro.. it puts me in a predicament. I've finished all chapters with my necro, so that isnt an option, farming is tedious nowadays and even if I DO find a rare item while playing the game normally.. all rune and weapon and mod prices have dropped to a rediculous all time low while the chances of finding them are ALSO at an all time low....

so the round up is:
Farming if possible is tedious and nerfed to death
Playing in party brings no rewards as skins are still very rare but very cheap and very hard to sell at all
Cash rewards are not enough
and the *open ended* feel of the game is gone,, now its complete it, complete hard mode, blah blah,, basically do whatever WE ANET suggest you do.... and nothing else.. or you're named, shamed, nerfed and banned...

and I'm 27 year old I've thought long and hard about this over the past few weeks and I really feel there is nolonger any fun to be had from this game...
it all started with the AOE nerf..

Kakumei · Jul 14, 2007, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Oh man it has been a long time since I've had someone like you. I got so excited reading your post that I knocked my mic off of my desk!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro-Monk

In checking the /age of my account I have played 4056 hrs over the past 23 months. Since the average job has approx. 2002 hrs per year, I'd say I'm pretty much a professional GW player (lol). BTW, I strictly play PvE.

You aren't professional until you get paid for it--you're just addicted.

Quote:

I began playing the game before Anet's attempts to improve the economy through anti-farming codes, changing monster AI, etc. To me, those were the fun days, where the game had a flow. As you moved through the game you acquired what was needed to progress. If you were in an area at the appropriate level, any well balanced party could take on huge mobs of monsters by careful aggro.

Yeah okay good so far

Quote:

As would be expected, it wasn't long before fan sites such as this one, became a haven for the hardcore player. To me, the hardcore player is one that will play the same thing over and over and over until they have figured out every nuance of how to beat the quest, mission, area, etc. Information on these sites began to extend well beyond "guides" and developed into step-by-step instructions on how to do practically anything in-game. Naturally, anything exploitable in the game was quickly shared and jumped upon by that class of players wanting a "leg up" over everybody else.

People wanting to learn how to do something without having to spend the time failing at it twenty times by themselves? Why I never

Quote:

The advent of Nightfall really changed the tenor of the entire game for me. In my opinion, that's when Anet gave in to the hardcore players. From that point on, the game lost it's finesse. The ability to separate mobs became a thing of the past. It was no longer a matter of having a balanced party, but the necessity of using specifically scripted professions and builds following step-by-step instructions provided by fan sites.

I'm just going to completely call you out on how completely wrong you are here. Careful pulling is still pretty much paramount for a vast, vast majority of PvE. Team makeup doesn't really matter, either--even in Hard Mode you can run whatever the hell you like and still vanquish pretty much anything, so long as you don't suck at the game.

Quote:

I feel that's why there is always such a huge difference of opinion whenever someone posts a thead in the forums about game play in general ( i.e. loot-scaling, the bots, AI, etc.) The biggest example of this is in the area of amassing gold. Anyone starting a thread or creating a post about having difficulty in obtaining gold (or loot) seems destined to be flamed by those that have no problem in getting gold (or loot). The fact of the matter is not the gold (or loot) itself, BUT THE MANNER IN WHICH IT IS OBTAINED.

Some people are managing to get along just fine. Why can't everyone, really?

No one has any advantage over anyone else, save for free time, thanks to the nature of the game.

Quote:

It's true enough that ANYONE wanting to follow the step-by-step instructions found in the farming (or other) sections of fan sites can get any amount of gold, greens, items, etc. they want.

As you say, anyone can. I fail to see the problem here.

Quote:

However, to many (including myself), by doing so they might as well be a bot following programed instructions. I believe that the vast majority of players would rather have the ability to use careful aggro with a variety of professions/skills in a party they develop themselves to play and advance through the game.

You still can??? I evidently missed the update where they said "every party must now consist of one warrior, five eles, and two monks. We deleted Mesmers entirely because lol"

Quote:

The Price of Failure of Anet's attempts control bots, exploiters, and hardcore players is that they have removed the "fun" factor for everyone else.

Different people have different standards and definitions of fun: more at eleven.

Quote:

However, it makes no sense at all make most everything worthwhile unobtainable by the "casual" player because of other's misuse. This will only make the game unplayable for most while having little or no effect on those who will take advantage of anything Anet does to stop bots, exploiters, etc. Personally, I could care less about bots, purchased gold, or what other players have obtained.

A casual player can still get anything they want, though. Prices on absolutely everything have been dropping like a rock--hell, even Obsidian armor would probably be reasonable for a casual player these days.

Quote:

My advice to Anet? Stop worrying so much about the small minority of players that you feel obligated to control and concentrate on the vast majority of players who just want to play the game for FUN.

Once again, some people have a hell of a lot of fun squeezing every little last bit of efficiency out of their farming build. What makes your style so much better?

Quote:

NOTE: This is my personal opinion. If you don't agree, I really don't care.

I respect your right to your opinion, but I sure as hell don't respect you or your opinion.

Alas Poor Yorick · Jul 14, 2007, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Interesting thing about flamers

They spend a lot of time trying to convince people that they should be having fun when they are not.

The OP is not having fun. He lists his reasons. He has experience to back it up. Frankly, a lot of people on these boards have posted similar opinions.

Therefore I respect his opinion - because he has the knowledge to back it up.

If ANet had its own boards people would not have to post negative opinions here - but since they don't, this is where people have to go to let ANet know when they are unhappy - or perhaps thinking of quitting the game.

Therefore I respect his opinion and his post - because he is following the suggestions made by ANet about how to get them to listen to him.

He doesn't care what you think -

Therefore I respect His opinion - because what flamers think is generally useless to read and wasted space.

Willow O Whisper · Jul 14, 2007, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

A casual player can still get anything they want, though. Prices on absolutely everything have been dropping like a rock--hell, even Obsidian armor would probably be reasonable for a casual player these days.

U mind telling me how ppl afford those ? Or the 15k at this state? It seams i have missed some kind of world-wide buisness secret, everybody apart from me know :P. The little money i made before hm is running out.

The Abbott · Jul 14, 2007, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Kakumei, way to take all of the OP's opinions and then mock them by stating YOUR opinions as fact... the OP simply stated the way he FEELS, I also feel this way as do many many others, I'd rather lootscaling disapeared alltogether as a cash rich enviroment with overpriced weapons to farm and save for after you've completed all the missions etc is ALOT more fun than this.. and for me its nothin.. I've done all missions and quests . have all the titles I want/can get, every char I wanted to complete the chapters has done so... so with out farming and a healthy cash system there is nothing for me to do.. and players like me are the ones who have stuck by the game through thick and thin,, and for what?

Loviatar · Jul 14, 2007, 05:12 PM // 17:12

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Abbott

I also feel this way as do many many others, I'd rather lootscaling disapeared alltogether as a cash rich enviroment with overpriced weapons to farm and save for after you've completed all the missions etc is ALOT more fun than this.. and for me its nothin.. I've done all missions and quests . have all the titles I want/can get, every char I wanted to complete the chapters has done so... so with out farming and a healthy cash system there is nothing for me to do.. and players like me are the ones who have stuck by the game through thick and thin,, and for what?[/

QUOTE]

i have multiple accounts and still less than 2000 hours so i guess that make me both loyal and casual.

the hard core farming crowd seems to have missed the fact that they are a very tiny fragment of total GW players and dont have enough numbers to have an effect on the GW bottm line.

the *CASUAL* player is the target buyer as shown by every change made so far to make things easier/cheaper to get in spite of every bitchfest the hard core farmers raise.

the vast majority of players do not consider 15 K armor as a get fast starting point for example.

also in case you missed it each *campaign* has a start, a main story , and an ending

how many times have you seen the thread right here saying.........

*IVE BEATEN THE GAME AND I AM BORED SO WHAT DO I SO NOWWWW?*

and the answer is FARM or pvp.

you finished it so put it on the shelf until you want to play again
or read a book
play something else
take a break
OMG go outside
talk to a RL friend

if the game is not paying you enough and you still play it that is your personal problem

The Abbott · Jul 14, 2007, 05:24 PM // 17:24

[QUOTE=Loviatar]

Quote:

QUOTE]

i have multiple accounts and still less than 2000 hours so i guess that make me both loyal and casual.

the hard core farming crowd seems to have missed the fact that they are a very tiny fragment of total GW players and dont have enough numbers to have an effect on the GW bottm line.

the *CASUAL* player is the target buyer as shown by every change made so far to make things easier/cheaper to get in spite of every bitchfest the hard core farmers raise.

the vast majority of players do not consider 15 K armor as a get fast starting point for example.

also in case you missed it each *campaign* has a start, a main story , and an ending

how many times have you seen the thread right here saying.........

*IVE BEATEN THE GAME AND I AM BORED SO WHAT DO I SO NOWWWW?*

and the answer is FARM or pvp.

you finished it so put it on the shelf until you want to play again
or read a book
play something else
take a break
OMG go outside
talk to a RL friend

if the game is not paying you enough and you still play it that is your personal problem

so basically what you're saying is, a game which got me (as a noob who didnt even play onlin) hooked, got me to buy all the expansions, play for over two year, and had REAL lasting appeal. (I finished the chapters months and months and months ago, not just recently)

so when all thats wiped out in favor of another type of player we shouldnt make our voice heard? we should just sit and say 'yeah ok I really loved this game and was hoping to play it for a few year yet but there is literally not a thing I can think to do when I log on' I'm not an average kid screaming like the world is at an end, coz at the end of the day its still just a game, its just a bit dissapointing that all the things that kept me, and nearly everyone I know in game playing, are now gone...

Onarik Amrak · Jul 14, 2007, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro-Monk

The Price of Failure of Anet's attempts control bots, exploiters, and hardcore players is that they have removed the "fun" factor for everyone else. Anet's own dev's admitted that the anti-farm code they implemented made the game "less-friendly". It only makes sense that anything a "casual" player can do to obtain something will be misused by some. However, it makes no sense at all make most everything worthwhile unobtainable by the "casual" player because of other's misuse. This will only make the game unplayable for most while having little or no effect on those who will take advantage of anything Anet does to stop bots, exploiters, etc. Personally, I could care less about bots, purchased gold, or what other players have obtained.

And they replaced the unfriendly anti-farm code with a system that's worse. Loot-scaling.

dopple · Jul 14, 2007, 05:36 PM // 17:36

I kind of agree with the general sentiment of the OP. Maybe not with all the fine points, but I am not going to nitpick every sentence. The game is getting less and less fun.

Pandora's box · Jul 14, 2007, 05:37 PM // 17:37

I agree with the opp with the exeption of what he said about aggroing (or pulling). I fail to see how it makes someone a good player if he is good in pulling. In fact, its a bad sign when you have to aggroo in every map to complete it. It lacks variation. Mind, I don't blame players for this, its the way the game is programmed.

Loviatar: If someone likes to continue a game because it has some potential to become a good game, if the right changes would be made... Of course he needs to post that opinion!

Despozblehero · Jul 14, 2007, 05:45 PM // 17:45

you could just do what ive seen many (even gaile) suggest... dont play the game all the time (seem to suggest rarely playing at all lol)... although an MMO without dedication is a joke, but so is what you now are left to dedicate yourself to in the game (if it was said thered be these kind of titles and such and the game would like this*cough*ECONOMY*cough* when the game 1st came out i wouldnt have bought it)... gogogadgetmindlessgrindtitles

Kakumei · Jul 14, 2007, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Abbott

Kakumei, way to take all of the OP's opinions and then mock them by stating YOUR opinions as fact...

I mock things that deserve it.

Quote:

the OP simply stated the way he FEELS,

Hey, so did I, aren't forums wonderful?

Quote:

so with out farming and a healthy cash system there is nothing for me to do.. and players like me are the ones who have stuck by the game through thick and thin,, and for what?

But you still can farm. This is what I don't get--people act like the introduction of loot scaling changed the game forever, but truth be told, I haven't noticed a difference. At all. Whether I'm two-manning out wherever, or fully vanquishing a zone with a full team of eight, I'm getting exactly the same amounts of loot that I got before. Plus, the introduction of Elite Tomes was quite the boon--they're rather common and go for ~10k a pop. I have no shortage of money, and I certainly don't play too often.

Regarding your other point--if you're out of things to do, there's an easy solution: stop playing for a while. Come back in a month or so, see if things have changed to your liking, or maybe the time off will restore your zeal for the game. Absence and the heart growing fonder, and all that.

zwei2stein · Jul 14, 2007, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Abbott

so basically what you're saying is, a game which got me (as a noob who didnt even play onlin) hooked, got me to buy all the expansions, play for over two year, and had REAL lasting appeal. (I finished the chapters months and months and months ago, not just recently)

You should have know better, i mean, this game was designed to be extemelly casuall friendly: Stuf like that there was no uber stuff to farm mindlessly for for months and that you reach level cap in weeks-days ahould have been warning enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Abbott

so when all thats wiped out in favor of another type of player we shouldnt make our voice heard? we should just sit and say 'yeah ok I really loved this game and was hoping to play it for a few year yet but there is literally not a thing I can think to do when I log on' I'm not an average kid screaming like the world is at an end, coz at the end of the day its still just a game, its just a bit dissapointing that all the things that kept me, and nearly everyone I know in game playing, are now gone...

Welcome to company of people who loved having level playing field and grind giving no advantage in PvE ...

Guess who was target audience of those changes? It was supposed to keep players like you happy. Be happy, you have those to grind for for years.

NinjaKai · Jul 14, 2007, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

Come back in a month or so, see if things have changed to your liking, or maybe the time off will restore your zeal for the game. Absence and the heart growing fonder, and all that.

I've had breaks from Guild Wars before for different reasons. I find it's generally the latter of the results to be true.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Jul 14, 2007, 06:14 PM // 18:14

I agree, at least about the killing the fun and increasing build dependence and grind.

Kakumei · Jul 14, 2007, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

I agree, at least about the killing the fun and increasing build dependence and grind.

Fun is, of course, subjective, but there's no more build dependence than there ever was. When you can do eight Mesmers vs. the City of Torc'qua and win, you know there's not much build dependence at all.

As far as PvE goes, you can bring whatever you want. It's not your skillbar that defines how good you are, it's a mixture of your tactics, your team's tactics, and--in some cases--familiarity with the task at hand.

Willow O Whisper · Jul 14, 2007, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Sure this was supossed 2 be a casual game, with as little grind as possble but titels and loot scaling, has changed this game from Guildwars 2 Grindwars. If this keeps going like this i might aswell go grinding the endless lvl's of WoW. 2 Be honest grinding sux, farming pre lootscaling made it possible for the casual gamer, to get he's little aument of *Bling Bling* without having 2 grind for several weeks. *thumbs Down for Lootscaling*

drago34 · Jul 14, 2007, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willow O Whisper

Sure this was supossed 2 be a casual game, with as little grind as possble but titels and loot scaling, has changed this game from Guildwars 2 Grindwars. If this keeps going like this i might aswell go grinding the endless lvl's of WoW. 2 Be honest grinding sux, farming pre lootscaling made it possible for the casual gamer, to get he's little aument of *Bling Bling* without having 2 grind for several weeks. *thumbs Down for Lootscaling*

First of all 2 is not the same as or even a substitute for to. Secondly, sux isn't even a word. Thirdly I'm getting tired of all the damn anti-loot scaling threads that keep popping up every other day and trying to get it through your thick heads so whatever.

Edit: Oh I almost forgot if you think the grind in guild wars is bad then you probably shouldn't even be playing games.